Recommended turn order based on play times:

As a follow-up to the release of v1.22 of the balance mod, Jean and I have released a new version of our http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=952663062, in which we've added the Gas masks upgrade to Dreadnought heroes. This change had been planned to be added to v1.22 of the balance mod, but didn't make the cut due to time constraints. So we added it to PBEM++ in order to allow people to use it instead of waiting for the next release of the balance mod.

For those of you who haven't tried the PBEM++, it's sort of a 3rd party extension to the main balance mod. We use it to tackle the issues that the balance mod team either doesn't have the time to work on or can't integrate because of the goal of targeting single-player mode as well as PBEM. Probably the most impactful example of that is we got rid of the starting spell unfairness, which can have a huge impact on the fast-paced duels played on tournament maps. But there's obviously more good stuff implemented, you can check this document to see the full list of changes as well as the reasoning behind them.

As the new round of the tournament starts today, I'd recommend to take a closer look at our nice little mod and consider using it for your tournament games if you like it. Obviously, every little change will have the people who are for it and the people who are against it, but the objective bottom line is it does make the competitive games more fair, which is good for the tournament games, right? =)

== Balance mod ==
Thanks a lot Mr. Hawk (and Tass by PM) for reporting the issue... We did test everything since mid-July and did several corrections in the last few days with Zaskow but it looks like some bugs were introduced and unspotted in the last update. Very sorry about that! At least now we know we need to pay extra attention when abilities' descriptions are updated (that's what caused the bug, for instance for Flying, we added "Gives +2 Vision Range" in the description, that's a quality of life improvement).
A fix has been released. For players who had already opened their games with the faulty version, it seems the only possible fix is to delete the PBEM saves from that game and then try to open the game again, which will redownload the turn from scratch. Sorry about the trouble and lost time...
Please come to the chat if you face issues, so that I can help there: https://www.the-battlefield.c... />
== 2017 PBEM Duel Tournament ==
Please note that Round 5 will be played with the main branch of the balance mod, I repeat the main branch. Please make sure NOT to use the beta branch (which was used for Round 4, but NOT for Round 5) as it will be used for tests on v1.23 of the balance mod. As a general rule, tournament games use the main branch. Only in specific cases will the beta branch will be used and in these cases, it will be required by judges and announced here.

v1.22 has been released on the main branch a few minutes ago so Round 5 can now officially start!
As announced in my previous post, Mr. Hawk replaced DarkRider (randomly picked among players who lost in round 4 and were interested to play round 5).

@players hosting: please post screenshots of the settings as usual, ideally in windowed mode. Wait for the greenlight of judges regarding settings and class/race.

== PBEM 2vs2 Team Tournament ==
Deadline of end of round expired, both ongoing matches are going to be decided by score unfortunately.
The decision tree described on this Player Pool on 2017-07-16 18:49:06 will be used: for this round and for this tournament, if the game is not finished by the deadline, then the winner would be decided by comparing in this order: 1/ the combined total (general) score of living players of each team, 2/ the combined military scores of living players of each team, 3/ the combined domain scores of living players of each team. If no team has a clear superiority (not just 1 point more; clear superiority is assessed by the judges) in any of these, then the team with the highest combined total (general) score of living players win (same as 1/ but without need for "clear superiority").

Match The green elephant vs rrrrookie & Jonny Thunder: waiting for Melciar to come back from business trip to play his turn, do a back up, then surrender, send the scores to judges, then sends the turn to the next player.
Match Bastards of the North vs The Sinners: Warlord Keldon will play his turn, then AlX will do the same thing as Melciar: play his turn, do a back up then surrender, send the scores to Markymark and me and then sends the turn to the next player.

== Anti-cheating ==
AlX proposed to make video recording mandatory for tournament games. We have 2 other opinions so far, if more express themselves, we can maybe launch a poll.

== Balance ==
The idea is to get v1.23 for next rounds of the 2 tournaments so a first version of the changelog should be proposed in about 2 weeks. That means many of the changes that have not received enough support will be pushed to v1.24.

Something strange is happening in the game, after the latest updates it seems gone mad ...maybe "Stranger Things"
Jokes apart, the mod must have a bug especially with flying creatures but there are probably other things. Try to create a test game and you'll find out (summon like as drone or crow are created but are "invisible" and mana upkeep, other flying creatures do not fly and do not walk but they can only navigate)

I think mandatory recording is not a bad idea for tournament games. Even a low-quality recording is a pretty good anti-cheat measure. For all ranked games such a requirement might be too much of a deterrent for new players, who might sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed even with all the current stuff (creating games, reporting, game settings etc.).

Then again, it's easy for me to say, since there probably isn't going to be another PBEM duel tournament in my natural lifetime

As for the cheating case, I share Gilafron's ideas regarding the pursuit of full transparency, since even though it might cause harm short term (which is debatable), I believe it's almost always for the best in the long term (generally, the more knowledge there is of cheats, the harder it is to cheat and get away with it). I do of course respect the fact that not everyone shares this ideology.

@Hellbrick, as I said - the right software, which would not ask a lot from system. Also, AoW is well-optimised and with the settings set on min it should be do-able. 

either way this is a proposal, and before there will be tons of "why this can't happen", it'd be good if we think whether or no it'd improve the competitive play.

I'm afraid mandatory turn recording is going to make things too hard for the people who either use old laptops that can't handle both the game and the video recording or simply are not tech-savvy enough to set it up easily. I know for a fact that we have players that fall into both these categories, and such rule would effectively exclude them from competing.

As I stated previously in my personal reply to the main judges - I would like to clarify, that the temporary judges were able to review the proof of cheating, without the access to specifics on "how" it was done. I personally was more interested in the game developers reply, but due to sensitivity of that we were not given access to it, only general conclusion.

Also, as I've wrote the judges while reviewing the proof, I believe that:
We need to expand rules to make the recording of one's turns mandatory. From the moment game is being opened to the moment it's uploaded on the server (breaks in the between can still be made with the turn divided in several videos). Each player must keep the recordings of the turns of a specific game, until the next round begins (or even send the links to all of the turns to the judges for review after the game ends, or just on demand). If we are to do that - it'd make a hell'uva tougher for the cheaters to cheat, while the honest players would get reassured that the game is as fair as it can be. This would probably need to be regulated - e.g. in what resolution the recording must be done to be discernible, with what software (as we know, some programs make AoW glitch with them) and there will definitely be those that will think of reasons against that, but from what I see - this is probably one of the best ways to catch cheaters spot-on. 

Personally, I usually don't record my turns, but if we're to implement this rule - I will gladly do it. Fair lose is still better than cheated win. 
I would actually go as far as to suggest making poll whether community would like to implement this measure. 

== Cheating case ==
So AlXStormrage, Olop and Marcuspers reviewed evidence demonstrating DarkRider had cheated and the elements we had that led us to think SeeR knew about the cheating (but as stated before, we do not believe SeeR himself cheated). Among the 3 judges, Fistandantilus, Markymark and me, there may also have been changes of mind since the beginning of the case.
In the end, the conclusions were:
- all 6 agreed the evidence demonstrated DarkRider had cheated.
- 4 considered SeeR very likely did not know about DarkRider cheating, 2 considered very likely that he did know (there are more nuances actually, but to simply that's the 2 broad positions).

As a consequence, the ban on DarkRider for all PBEM Tournaments and all ranked games is maintained. The ban on SeeR is reverted. SeeR won't be able to continue the 2vs2 Tournament as he is now alone in his team and replacements are not allowed. We however hope he will continue the Duel Tournament as well as ranked games.

In the name of the 3 judges and the 3 players who reviewed the case, I'd like to apologize to SeeR for the harm caused to him by the judgement process.

The other judges or reviewers may like to complete this picture, I'll let them do so. @all: please keep in mind that, as explained before, the details on what happened, etc. cannot be shared, so I hope everyone will be reassured by the fact that we got unanimity regarding the cheating and will not feel the need to ask for more details.

== 2017 PBEM Duel Tournament  ==
Round 4 has just been completed!
As DarkRider is eliminated, one seat is open on round 5. Fistandantilus and Marcus (as I will be playing the player who will replace Dark, I was not involved in the decision) agreed that the best replacement would be one of the player eliminated on round 4. Potential players have been contacted and Mr Hawk was randomly drawn by Marcus.
Round 5 will use v1.22 (reminder: changelog in this article) on the main branch, which means we need to wait about 48 hours, for v1.22 to be released on the main branch. So please do NOT host your games for now. As soon as v1.22 is on the main branch, you can start hosting the games.
Meanwhile, please send your class/race to the judges (if you don't need to wait for the replacement of DarkRider to be announced). We already received a couple of class/race.

== PBEM 2vs2 Team Tournament ==
48 hours left to end of round.
@players involved in round 4: please unsubscribe from the main branch temporarily. That way when we update the main branch with v1.22, you'll stay with v1.21 (if you have other games with the main branch, they'll have to wait until your tournament game finishes, before you can play your turns in these games, but that should be pretty fast: v1.22 will be updated shortly after the deadline, and then you should be able to play your turn with v1.21 in less than 24 hours I guess, meaning you'll be able to resubscribe quickly).

I can't commit to keeping the findings confidential, so I won't be a judge with that constraint.  Knowing me, I'd probably give the information to wikileaks.  Seriously, I'm an advocate for transparency.  I believe more good comes from it than bad.

Yes, I would like to review the case also.

Hi, 

yes, would like to act as a temporary judge to review the case.

== Cheating case ==
Sorry for the delay to follow up on this, we were waiting for an answer from the devs and I was also on a quite busy business trip, so it took more time than wished.

Once again, I am sorry we are not fully transparent but the nature of the cheating and detection method means we cannot share it publicly without causing harm. I can understand people are not happy with that but it's a bit like asking spies to explain all what they do and be fully transparent: that would make them totally ineffective to fight terrorists, etc.

We prepared a series of proofs of the cheating which can be shared with a limited number of players, if they agree to act as the judges are doing and keep the information confidential. Gilafron, Olop, AlX, Marcus, you expressed their interest in seeing this, please tell us (by PM or here) if you want to examine these proofs.

Regarding SeeR's ban, we are reviewing it following the discussion here and with some players. We might also request the opinion of 1-2 other players to decide what to do. So please be a little more patient on this.
Thanks all for your feedback, it made us rethink the case somehow.

Hellbrick wrote "IIRC, there was a precedent of cheating in another team game, which didn't lead to any disciplinary actions against the teammate of the cheater". Yes, it was in a game involving Marcus and Evgendil where Evgendil cheated. As Marcus pointed out, the cheating happened only on the last turn and was spotted (by me) before Marcus could do anything, so it's very different from now as Marcus could not know about it.

Regarding what Marcus said, we did send all the information to Triumph.
And the ban for DarkRider was 3-0, not 2-1. Same initially for the ban for SeeR but things evolved following the discussions, and it may further evolve following additional elements sent today. We'll see for the final decisions in a few days.

I'd also like to clarify that Triumph did not specifically said DarkRider cheated, but rather their explanations of some stuff we observed strongly pushed the "cheating" case. I am quite vague but, again, being more explicit could help some to cheat more easily...

As I said previously, we have ways to detect cheating. They're obviously not automatic and explaining all the details would help potential future cheaters. So my advice is that anyone having a doubt, or noticing something weird should report it to judges.

== 2017 PBEM Duel Tournament ==
13 days left and 1 match still ongoing, which will probably require the whole remaining time and be decided by score.
Depending on the results of the process described above, DarkRider and maybe SeeR, should be replaced.

@all players already knowing their opponent for round 5, please send your class/race to judges: Fistandantilus, Marcuspers and me, if you're not playing one of us.
v1.22 used for round 5, probably v1.23 for round 6.

== PBEM 2vs2 Team Tournament ==
9 days left and 2 matches still ongoing unfortunately, which means probably both decided by score...
3 more rounds to go so probably about 9 months.
Round 6 will use v1.22.
Markymark and I discussed the replacement of West Coasters (as it will affect his team, Fistandantilus was not involved): the two teams that will lose in round 5 will be proposed to replace West Coasters on round 7, because they have the same number of victories (3 victories, 2 losses, and West Coaster = 3 victories) so are the closest in terms of success/strength. If both are interested, a qualification match will be organized between the 2 teams.

Thank you $eer, we had much fun in games with you in the battlefield.
Was a honor to Play with you in much games.

Since now, no one is banned (when you are banned really : can not more Login to the page and no one can Play here with you)

The ban is for the 2on2 tournament firstly. But we discuss if a Player get a permanent ban too, but it is not decided for now.

When you have a problem with a certain Player, it is not the only once player at this place, and we are sports man, so making not a huge Problem.

About cheating, when you think, the cheats can not used  in live games (or it is difficulter) , you are think false. Maybe the last live tournament was won by a cheater. The cheats can be used in live multiplayer games too. Can be used in discord games too or in all others communities. And competive games make cheats more interest.
So it is sometimes better to play just for fun (without Prices)

So it is hard to Play competive game in aow3, because normal Players will think the winners using cheats (when i talk to normal Players, i hear exactly this, some Players like gabthegab are winning too often).
About PBEM
Normal Players can not Play live games, because they have no time for it, so pbem is a good solution for all players.

Not make anti-advertisement against PBEM, i think PBEM can be used from much more Players.

After reviewing my steam conversation with Hiliadan when i got the black screen at the time of its occurence 
( which coincidentally did not trigger a reload warning ) 

My words were " i believe the game has possibly been tampered with"

i did not accuse any particular individual or more specifically my opponents in involved in the game.

If i was aware of my teammate cheating why would i do this ?

If my teammate was cheating , so be it we are disqualified from tournament and he should be exposed.
I was not directed to "watch" my teammate after his earlier crash....and honestly when i get home from work i usually have between 4-6 pbem turns waiting , sure i would take my time a little more with tournament turns , but i am definately not "counting hexes" on my allies army movements from where units were at end of his previous turn.


The protest i have is the harsh ban being imposed on me when i was the one that brought the possibilty of foul play to the attention of the judges.

Regardless , with this new discord group that has been setup by DreadReaper for live games , you will not see me much on battlefield anymore anyways. I did enjoy being part of the tournaments , and hosting some extra fancy modded pbem games occasionally. But at heart i have always been preferential to live games , or PBEM style heavily modded Titanic Map sized 2 player co-op live classic turn campaign type extreme difficulty maps with ranging between 6-30 mods.


I will host my final "hurrah" pbem game this evening it will be the last one i host for quite some time as these days work as well as the doberman and my soccer team take up the majority of my free time , and ive been having trouble keeping up with pbem turns even on 4-7 day timers.



This final PBEM will be 2v2v2v2 , very challenging settings and of course with many of the mods i have been experimenting with since the release of the mod tools.

It will be a big map and at least VERY STRONG defender strength perhaps consider even the SUPER STRONG setting allowed by the extended settings mod.

i invite any vetrans to grab a seat at the TaverN

good luck to whomever reaches the finals vs Gab&Tussel , they are some tough bastards to beat , i had thought we were on our way to handing gab his official first defeat.

anyhow
don't forget to enjoy the occasional adult beverage once in a while when playing ur turns

$eeR

As this situation is getting more tense, in order for the sake of stability of this community I propose the following.
 
I will gracefully accept the judge’s decision if
 
 
1. All judges (Hil, Fist, Mark) and Gilfraron (if as judge) individually review the accusations, proof and my explanation of accusations
2. Individually message me their decision and explanation of the decision
 
This will make solve all the problems and everyone can be in peace.
 
Regarding Seer's accusations I leave to Seer and other community members.
 
 
@Hil, I cannot share that publicly or unlisted because my opponent can access it, the game is still going on and I don't want my opponent to see it. I am still confident that this investigation was triggered by my opponent when I mistakenly shared publicly, whoever wants to judge send me their email I will share with them.
 
On the other note, it is my mistake for deleting the videos that dated more than month back (I have some problems with storage and recording where my FPS drops below 10 and unplayable I have mentioned this in the game and judges). It is also my mistake that I didn't check my outbox that the message didn't transmit. I agree on both these mistakes.
 

For your information, we are waiting for DarkRider to send us the video back. He tried to share it to my email but I could not open it, so I provided another one and waiting (and proposed to make it "Unlisted" which would be easier to access for all judges). When we have the video, we can make more comments.

SeeR did explain the strategy of DarkRider and him to us. As I said, the judges have not questioned this strategy. The cheating exposed and the ban of SeeR do not mean this strategy cannot work and requires cheating. So the fact that SeeR explained this strategy to me does not mean there was no cheating or that he did not know about it, this is quite unrelated. It would be very nice of everyone if you could wait until we have the video and answer some of the previous comments before making other comments that just "pour oil on the fire" for no benefit.

Olop, I would be interested if you could give me more details by PM because, unlike for AlX for which we argued during our 4vs4 so I see what he is talking about, and Gilafron with whom we discussed by PM, I don't really understand what you are implying.
I also proposed to you to discuss and explain more by PM.

I can understand that some feels uncomfortable with the decision and the process and we are ready to discuss it with them as I said before.

AIXStormrage> I've had my personal fallout with Hilliadan, due to "domineering", 

I have had similar "dominering" experiences also.


AIXStormrage> but it's personal, and it never had influenced judging process for me.

Have you been accused of cheating?  If you were accused of cheating do you think the "domineering" could possibly influence actions?  

Seer> Ouch thats pretty nasty Hiliadan , Im not aware of any cheating by Darkrider , we worked very hard on our teamwork strategy , and i did explain it to you in private when you asked me on steam chat. 

Seer> Please explain to me how you think he cheated ? 

Until there is more than Hiliadan's (and the other judges') word that
Seer MIGHT have known about the cheating, I respectfully have to take
Seer at his word.  From my personal experience, I have more reason to
trust Seer.

I am happy to see that people have an opinion here and a voice. It shows that this community means something to all of us and that we appreciate it!
I also believe that the judges are right not to show the information. I could also think that maybe, if someone is still very wary, the judges could show Gilafron as a neutral community member the evidence and Gilafrom will then confirm the judges decision to everyone. I agree that it seems like Seer indeed did not follow and do his duties, so the punishment is not without reason at all. And I dod not know enoug to say whether it is too harsh or not, I leave that evaluation to more experienced members of the community.
I very much agree with AIXStormrage all in all, beautiful text AIX!

Also I want to clarify/apologize: Saying "this mess" I didn't mean the proof or the decision. I only meant this sad subject which is a mess. Just why would you cheat? A victory cheated is way worse than an honest defeat, you'll always feel like an imposter.

I also want to use my voice to thanks not only the judges but everyone here that contributes to the community and keeps it running fair and well. Thank you!

@all putting my 5 cents in:

• Integrity
  When the tournament started, everyone had a chance to read the rules and regulas. Meaning that the collegiate of the judges was made public in the very beginning. If, for some reason, a person distrusts a judge (or more than one), why would the said person participate in such tournament? 
  I am not the most influential person on this site, but if my word means something - I believe that all 3 judges, namely Markymark, Fistandantilus and Hilliadan are honourable and honest people, and doubting their integrity is a doubt directed to all community, which is sad. I've had my personal fallout with Hilliadan, due to "domineering", but it's personal, and it never had influenced judging process for me.


• Transparency
  In the past, I've discovered the loophole, which I made publicly known. At that time Hilliadan chose to hide the details, at least until devs fixed it. Looking back, I have to admit that it was, indeed, the right decision. 
  Therefore, I am actually wondering if the same can be done here - assuming devs are preparing a fix for it, when the patch comes out - the info on how the Darkrider had cheated or how he was caught, can be shared then.
  I do believe that disclosure of the details to community should eventually be done, but only after there are steps taken to prevent such occurrence in the future.


• Evidence
  whenever the case, which requires the attention of the judges, occurs, it's up to the participants to:
  a) gather and send all relevant info to the judges
  b) make sure judges received it
  c) keep a copy of all sent info somewhere safe
  what I am saying is that the excuses like "I sent the info, didn't know you didn't receive it" or "I had deleted it by accident/because didn't had enough space" can and must be treated as a proof of guilt.


• Conspiration
  With all respect to Seer, if the Darkrider had indeed cheated and he had noticed that something fishy was going on, it was his duty to either talk it through with the Darkrider (try to dissuade of using the exploit in the future) or report to the judges.
  Unfortunately, at the moment we can only speculate on whether he may have known or no, which, given that we don't know the severity of the loophole, can be majorly judged by the aftereffects on the game process. Again the most competent to judge here would be judges as they've seen the evidence.
  Personally I would like to think that Seer didn't know of this, but as the saying goes - even good people do bad things - I can't guarantee it. But, the punishment of being banned of the future tournaments and/or ranked games seem a bit too excessive to me. 
  If possible, I would like to appeal to judges to review their initial decision and decide Seers sentence publicly by community's vote. This can be also done once the dust settles and the details of the exploit are made public.

@Hilliadan, can you PM/chat me of the details? I am interested on how these exploits can be traced. If it's impossible to tell now, I am ok to wait until the patch is made.

EDIT:
@marcuspers, I believe that you misinterpreted and Hilliadan has said that all 3 judges agreed 100% with the fact Darkrider cheated, but if someone doubts the situation, he can temporary assume the role of the 3-rd judge to review evidence. 
Either way, I am quite curious what was the opinion of the Triumph's devs.

@Jonny When someone is using principles from the 13th century, at least I must stand up and applaud that, never mind if he is right or wrong in his assumptions. But we don't have any options for up-voting here

@Hiliadan, if you say that the vote was 2v1 and a 3rd temporary judge could make a difference, I would love to review the evidence. Or Gilafron, I don't mind!

As for potential changes in rules, in Sweden we have a legal system which in the first case consist of 1 judge and 2 people from the community, so the judge can lose 2-1 in a vote. The second instance is 3 Judges and 0 (to 2) people from the community based on the case, so we could introduce a rule that when someone is being banned, 2 people from the wider community would be included to "bring the voice of the people" to the table, that could even sway a vote of 2-1 in  favour of the "accused".

And when the DarkRider case's dust will have settled, we will still have a situation where it is possible to cheat and it is possible to find out if someone has cheated except if said someone knows how to hide his tracks ? 

Very good point Imperium, and I believe in this case there is no easy answer. We would need to trust the judges to be honest or else we will have an evil circle when someone knows something, then the judges knows something that can't be proved or how to hide it, as you say. Because when judging a tournament, there is episodes when we need to investigate something, and developers cant or wont fix it, so it's better no one knows. Or in a few examples we find it out, and then tell Triumph and they correct it, but they don't have unlimited resources.