Recommended turn order based on play times:

Sorry for the performance here, I was hoping to provide a better video for the final, but what I have is on you tube at the link below. On the final turn video I explain what I was hoping to accomplish. Turn 2-3 is uploading now. I do think it would be good to have some more PBEM videos, so I will try to do another one some time.

Tourney game 30 videos.

Thank you to every body , no cbower don't lose his throne to independent no independent turn 3 , i don't understand when i find cbower he don't have use his colon and just have take independent city with his army split, so i chose to attack with my army split too, but i have better heroes the heroes of cbower are wound... may be i can do video. Cbower why you come in independent city with your colon?

The match between cbower and gabthegab was actually extremely quick! gab on with a big rush lightning attack on cbower on turn 3 - which had lost his throne to independent if I understand correctly? -. Pretty scary!!

Congratz gab!
Now you need to wait for the winners of the 2 sub-tournaments to finish to see who you will face for the big final matches.

==
Regarding the 2 vs 2 tournament, I think we can aim for July 15 to start it. I believe we can open registration in about 2 weeks. Hopefully the PBEM balance mod will be ready tomorrow or a bit later, Zaskow sent the files to cbower.
I propose that we use a v1.15 of the mod for the tournament which would include corrections of potential issues spotted in v1.1 as well as improvements on the solutions for Necro, conversion and Necro farming. Other things (e.g. rebalance of Rogue heroes, currently discussed for v1.2) would not be included as we would not have time to test them.

Goodluck cbower and gab.

Update on the 3 tournaments:

• 16 players: the final is under way, cbower vs gabthegab. I think cbower is doing a video!


• 1st 8 players: Jonny Thunder vs Sjow ongoing


• 2nd 8 players tournament: ehall replaced by Warlord Keldon (who was the only one to be in a similar situation to ehall, with Olop, and Olop had to drop because of real life time constraints). rrrrookie vs Warlord Keldon will start soon. Please both send your class / race to judges (rrrrookie, you can update your previous choice).

Update on future tournaments:
Next tournament will be a 2 vs 2 PBEM. It will use the balance mod for PBEM. v1.1 of the mod should be released this week end or next week (Zaskow almost finished his part, then he needs to send it to cbower who will finish it). The idea is that the tournament uses a v1.15 which correct the possible issues in v1.1. The mod will at the same time continue to be improved for a v1.2 (which is currently under discussion).

By the way, a poll on specialisations have been opened, please vote if you haven't yet: http://www.the-battlefield.co...

The 3 judges agreed on how the final games will be organized. I made a drawing to explain it, it's not as clear as I would like but hopefully it is sufficiently clear. Please let us know if you have questions about it: https://docs.google.com/drawi... />
Both 8 players tournament are now on round 4 (tournament 3 is waiting for a replacement match to know who will replace ehall).
As far as I know, cbower and Lightform started their match in the 16 players tournament

So far, the feedback I saw regarding the 5 options I mentionned in my previous message (A, B1, B2, B3, C) is A+B2 and then B1 (AlX, with whom I agree) and C from Dementrophobic and Marcuspers. More feedback would be welcome.
Many spells and abilities are not used in the game because they are bad (e.g. Earth adept). We use very few strategic spells. Some classes are over-represented both in the tournament and outside it (AD, Theo). I believe we need more changes to make all combinations somehow viable.

A new topic has been published with only 1 page of discussion so far, it's much shorter to read. Fistandantilus, Eskild, cbower, all players in the top 20, please provide feedback: http://aow.triumph.net/forums...

Hi all, we had a quitter in a game, before it was started. 
Let me know if you want to join a 4vs4. 
We are playing with the balance mod (PBEM). 

I will add you to the game manually. and send you game and pw names. 

Thank you! 
/Marcus 

AlX, basically I agree with you and I was in favour of a bigger nerf of Befriend Animal but most players were against it. So I believe we'll have to stick with this for now.
We need more feedback on what to do next. I opened a new thread so it is very quick to read, you don't have 6 pages of walls of text. Please everyone have a look at it and react:
http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/balance-based-on-hard-data-from-the-pbem-tournament-continued
We have a few options and I'd like to hear what you want to do:
A/ make all class / race viable and thus boost combo that were not played in the PBEM tournament and nerf those who were played a lot
B1/ make all specialisation equally useful and viable
B2/ make all units equally useful and viable and make racial governance choices meaningful (i.e. you should really hesitate between the eco and military choice and not always choose one because it is better)
B3/ make all heroes equally useful (currently AD and Theo heroes – and not leaders – are more useful because of healing and other abilities)
C/ fix the remaining imbalances in abilities / specific units (e.g. Necro’s Energy Drain)

==
In the 2nd 8 players tournament, ehall20 dropped because of lack of time. Olop and Warlord Keldon were the only 2 players in the same situation (1 loss at the beginning, 2 victories afterward) so they are about to fight to decide who will replace ehall. The round is thus currently on hold.

In the 16 players tournament, cbower and Lightform can start their match. We have both class / race.

AD05  
Befriend Animal is available at level 5 for Archdruid heroes and leaders (was 3) and costs 4 (was 3)  
AD06  
Leaders and heroes’ Befriend Animal has strength 6. When Summon Eldritch Animal is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 8.  
Ne07  
Necromancer heroes and leaders can choose Convert Undead at level 7 for 5 points (was level 5 for 4 points)  
Ne08  
Leaders and heroes’ Control Undead has strength 6. When Summon Banshee is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 8. 

Let's think of the two abilities as equals. In this case Befriend Animal allows for animal converting, including Dire Bear, Dire Panter, Spider Queens, Serpents, hellhounds, hellsteeds and so on. But the real dangerous part here is that by constant battling with the t1 like spiders, baby serpents and so on AD can gain the evolved versions pretty fast.
In the end I'll add some screenshots from my (and) latest game agains Evgendil and Marcus.
Back to the point - even if we treat both abilities as equals - how often do you think you meet UD or animals? is it equal? From my experience the ratio is more like 60-40 to 70/30 (comparing to each other), and not in favour of undead.
Either way, I believe Befriend animal should be available AFTER level 7 and for AT LEAST 5 points. Don' t forget that ad has animal bonuses + regeneration, which boosts the ability to farm unit levels.
And now some screens (turn 28, but the armies went my way around turn 25 or earlier, my defending 2 stacks were defeated, inflicted small casualties to Evgendil), sadly, I barely started musketeer/golem production, and even so - they are no match.

Debate continued here for those interested http://aow.triumph.net/forums...

I want to clarify that I'm not debating about individual classes.  It's the overall concept.   I will use Charm and Rogues as an example.

1.  When Charm's strength is lowered, it now becomes the standard.  Every leader class is affected in the same way.  That's fine.  No issues.  The Charm ability is brought into balance by the mod by lowering its strength.

2.  When Charm increases strength after Produce Bard is researched, Rogue heroes now become stronger when their leader is a Rogue as well.  This objective I don't agree with.  I believe it introduces imbalance to the balance.

My arguments against Point #2 are:

A.  Other classes, such as warlord, don't have a Warlord hero becomes stronger when Warlord skill is researched by a leader.

B.  I'm not saying point #2 above is a bad idea, but to "balance" it across each class would be a challenge and, probably, outside the intent of the balance mod.

I'm not sure this thread is the best place for continued discussion.  Is there a thread on AoW3 forums?  If so, please post the link here and I'll post on that thread for continued discussion.

I think you misread the change. Nothing is increased. Charm, Convert, Control Undead and Befriend Animal are nerfed by 2 level of strength. When you research the appropriate tech, it's brought back to its normal (current) level. So it's not +2 compared to now.
So Warlord heroes benefit strongly. Warlord class also somehow benefit because their Theo, AD, Necro and Rogue opponent will not be able to convert with their leader as well as before, until they research techs. The idea is to slow down conversion and also make classes more meaningful (i.e. not having EVERYONE converting units in all games through Theo heroes).

I do not like any of the rules that grant additional powers to a class of heroes based upon a leader's skill.  For instance, increasing Charm strength based upon Produce Bard.  This benefits Rogue heroes for Rogue leaders.  My counter is, when do Warlord heroes get a benefit from Warlord leaders?  If something like that is added in, I would be more ok with it.  However, I believe this functionality is outside the scope and intent of the balance mod.  The balance mod should not add "new" features, such as the concept of class heroes getting bonuses based upon the class of the leader.

In summary, I highly suggest not implementing any rule that augments a hero based upon a leader skill.

Hello everyone!
Looks like we got a massive crash of the database or something, the 3 PBEM tournaments have been swiped off! I hope Markymark has a backup! oO

If the issue can be solved, the next round of the 2nd 8 players tournament should start soon. Sorry, I don't remember what were the pairings but for the winners + the loser of the winner bracket, please prepare for your next match. You can already send your class / race to the judges, or wait until the roster is back to send it.

For the 1st 8 players tournament: Blackcat vs Skuns is ongoing. When it's finished, we can proceed to next round.

For the 16 players tournament: waiting for Lightform in his match against cbower.

I agree that mind control abilities should be limited. I don`t mind AD05, Neo7, Ro14 and Th09 in new edition. It seems reasonable. I also don`t mind that Healing abilities can be used only once per battle (GC06).

Ok thanks for the feedback! I noted it in the table! Unfortunate that you're against everything and for nothing though.  
https://docs.google.com/docum...
 
Following the latest feedback, we've got 3 new priority changes:  
Ro16  
Leaders and heroes’ Charm has strength 6. When Produce Bard is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 7.  
 
GC08a  
Unity Beacon Tower costs 700 gold (was 1200)  
 
GC09a  
Unity Beacon Fire costs 700 mana (was 1000)  
 
EDIT: I also changed the proposals for Theo, Rogue and Necro to take into account people who were against the preliminary values. So we also have these 3 priority changes: Ne07a Necromancer heroes and leaders can choose Convert Undead at level 5 for 5 points (was level 5 for 4 points) Ro14a Rogue heroes and leaders can choose Charm at level 7 (was 5) for 5 points Th09 Theocrat leaders and heroes can choose Convert at level 9 (was 7) for 7 points (was 5)

Me and my play style is totally against GC10, GC11, AD06, Ro16, Th08, Th09  

For Th09 I think lvl 9-10 and 7-8 points will be enough.

A new poll has been opened to get your opinion on the types of future tournaments that should be organized, check it and vote here: http://www.the-battlefield.co...  
 
PBEM tournaments will use the PBEM balance mod.  
So we need to speed up its development as much as possible. Your feedback on the following proposed changes ("for" or "against") is very welcome!! The changes that make consensus will be included in v1.1 of the mod, which should be released next week.  
 
GC10  
Converted, Charmed, Seduced, etc. units are converted only until the end of Battle and disappear afterwards  
GC11  
Converted units cost more in upkeep:+25% gold / turn  
AD05  
Befriend Animal is available at level 5 for Archdruid heroes and leaders (was 3) and costs 4 (was 3)  
AD06  
Leaders and heroes’ Befriend Animal has strength 6. When Summon Eldritch Animal is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 8.  
Ne07  
Necromancer heroes and leaders can choose Convert Undead at level 7 for 5 points (was level 5 for 4 points)  
Ne08  
Leaders and heroes’ Control Undead has strength 6. When Summon Banshee is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 8.  
Ro14  
Rogue heroes and leaders can choose Charm at level 7 (was 5) for 7 points (was 5)  
Ro15  
Rogue heroes and leaders’ Charm is a touch ability (was Short range)  
Ro16  
Leaders and heroes’ Charm has strength 6. When Produce Bard is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 7.  
Th08  
Leaders and heroes’ Convert has strength 7. When Produce Evangelist is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 9.  
Th09  
Theocrat leaders and heroes can choose Convert at level 13 (was 7) for 7 points (was 5)

I made videos of my match against cbower in Round 6 of the tournament too. You can check them here:
Round 6 - Goblin Theocrat vs Dwarf Rogue: https://www.youtube.com/playl...

It also ended in 11 turns but this time I lost! It was mainly self inflicted with a very poor start on turns 1 to 3 (lost 4 units) and then a big mistake on turn 6 or 7 when I lost my leader. I started to significantly increase my strength on turn 10 but it was too late as cbower was already on me.

@1st 8 players tournament: no news of Blackcat and Skuns - did your game start?

ANNOUNCEMENT: there will be a 2 vs 2 team tournament at some point this year. You're encouraged to look for a partner and train!
The site has a "team tool": you can create your team (My Account -> My Team) or join one. Check the teams here: http://www.the-battlefield.co...
There is also a team ranking: http://www.the-battlefield.co...
New features will probably be developed for team (team chat, posts only visibile by team members in gaming blogs).

Evgendil joined !!